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| I wouldn't say she did it intentionally, but it's not like she accidentally triggered the goal detector just by being too close to it. She turned too far and shot the puck into our net. So it wasn't intentional, but it wasn't like it was out of her control, so it counted. |
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| I will clarify the rule so it indicates that any goal scored by a goalie is disallowed, rather than being so specific. I can't imagine a time someone would deliberately score a goal on their own team, we made it "safer" for the goalie since generally being closer to the goal detector it is easier to have an accident. This of course would bring up discussion on whether any goal scored by defense or offense also on their own team would be disallowed, but sounds like a reasonable discussion. I think we get into muddy water when attempting too much to read someone's intentions. |
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I would ask what is the situation in RL hockey, if the goalie makes a save and then inadvertently sends the puck into his own goal? I thought that in such a situation the goal stands and the goal is credited to the last attacking player to play the puck, as was the call in this situation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Own_goal The capture effect of our script makes it look different but I would have thought the principle was the same.
The rule that goalies cannot score on the opposing goal is not really needed anyway as they will be behind the blue line and is really no different than the rule which does not allow anyone to score form outside the defensive blue line. The rule about goalies triggering the goal detector is to deal with the situation where the goaliein possession of the puck turns and the puck is detected as crossing the goal line. Where the goalie is not in possession of the puck then if the puck goes in the net the goal should stand. If the goalie passes the puck they are no longer in possession so if they pass the puck into the net then that is their own misfortune and they need to be more careful in future.
Abu makes a good point about players potentially using own goals to stop the game. If we disallow goals by the defending it could become a useful defensive ploy. Your goalie has gone behind the net to pick up a lose puck. The attacker has beaten them to it and passed out in front of goal looking for a one-timer and you as a defensive player have intercepted the pass facing your own net. Do you turn and risk being checked by whichever attacking players might be behind you in front of goal with your goalie out of position, or do you take the safe option of shoot into you own goal, stop the game, get everybody back in position and have a face-off back at centre?
I don't see any need for a rule change, just a clarification of the existing situation.
Cili. |
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its no goal for goalies.... im quite positive that goals count for defenders and forwards  |
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I truly think that the rule is ok as stands with goaltender goals disallowed on their own goal, the situation Ashlene had seemed quite unusual (didn't see it myself) and sometimes you get into more trouble making complicated rule changes over a very unusual situation. To me, it makes sense to keep it as-is, goaltender goals disallowed, as they are so close to the detector most of the time and a situation such as Ashlene's has never happened before and chances are won't happen often.
I understand the accident part, on numerous occasions due to my jerky hands accidentally releasing left mouse click I have released a puck in the wrong direction. For defense this can be dangerous but fate has been in my favor and never a goal on it..lol
If a situation came up where we had some goalie repeatedly and obviously deliberately shooting on his own goal then obviously that would have to be addressed. That's where part of the goalie delay of game penalty came into being, we had a situation once where a goalie was firing over and over directly at the other goaltender. Most of the time I think people don't deliberately abuse like this and making new rules to cover it is more a pain for everyone than useful. |
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Cili, the goalie disallowed rule came to fruitation if my memory serves me right, back in s5. It was a uncommon occurance back then, that a goalie would turn to his/her left or right to pass the puck. But instead of passing it, the goal detector would eat it and hence a goal being given to the opposing team. The rule was added to protect goalies from scoring inadvertently while just trying to make a play.
On the other hand, I feel that if a goalie is outside the crease, they should be subject to the same "own goal" standards we hold Defense and Offensive players to. I haven't seen the play, so I cannot comment on whether or not I think it should or shouldn't have happened. We all lag, sometimes with harmless results, others draw penalty's like lagging into the crease, while I have seen a few accidental goals being scored from it. All we can do is rely on the ref to make his/her judgment call on the play and respect it, and just move on. |
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Thank you Hawke, That is what I thought with regard to the rule of goalies being too near the goal and triggering the detector.
To me the key is whether the goalie is in possession of the puck when it crosses the goal line. If the goalie plays the puck and it goes in the net, as opposed to getting too close to goal while in possession of the puck and triggering the detector, then, in my opinion, the goal should stand just as it would in a rl hockey game, (Think Brodeur and 2003 Stanley Cup) and the last player on the scoring side to touch the puck is credited with the goal. I think Abu made the right call in the circumstances and this should be the situation which obtains in any future incidence of this kind. The consideration of whether it is accidental or not is irrelevant. I can't ask for a goal to be called back because, on defence, I accidentally passed to the opposing team's forward.
If the goalie makes a mistake and shoots into their own net what is the reasoning why this should not count as a goal?
Cili. |
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If a goalie (or any player) accidentally shoots the puck into their own net, it should count IMO. The distinction already cited here makes good sense. If the player has possession of the puck and triggers their own goal detector the goal should not count. If they shoot or direct the puck and it goes in, count the goal and give credit to the last person on the other team who touched the puck.
I think it's probably fair to say that this rule shouldn't be limited to goaltenders either. The goal should be disallowed if any player triggers the goal detector by getting to close to it when they have possession of the puck.
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It's actually not possible for a player to trigger a goal while holding the puck. Only the green puck can trigger the goal.
In my own personal opinion, a goal is a goal regardless who shoots it or lost control of it. But that's just me 
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| I say if a goalie scores on their own net while they are in their crease it shouldnt count, but if they are out of the crease then it should. Also if a skater scores on their own net it should count, and the last opposing player to touch it would be credited the goal. |
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oh the disagreements ensuing of whether a goalie was or wasnt in the crease when releasing the puck scored on his/her own net... Im in favour of a goal is a goal no matter who scores it.
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i've managed to score on myself twice once in S5 and once in s8 i believe... sometimes things just happen to fast...ur in ur crease ur being pressured you go to make a quick slide to one side to pass to ur defenseman and *ping* off the post and in the net. I beliee this is the "Gala" rule because if im not mistaken she was the first to do it (i was the second). it happens... specially if a goalie plays back tight against the posts.
besides if your theory is that they would do this to delay a game... the goalie can delay the game by freezing it... shooting it into the net intentionally is a stupid idea and if anyone tried it then they should be reconsidering where they are gonna spend their free time in sl. secondly if a defenseman wants to delay a game... they can always give the puck to the goalie and have then freeze it or dump it out of play intentionally which they do.... u know who you are... so dont hide behind the "oh intional delay this " or that... goalie goals should not count... if we cant score down ice... then when accidents do happen.... shouldnt count them then... secondly if we changed to rules now about defensemans or offenseman on their own goals to no goals...we owe beavis alot of appolgies since he's done it more times than anyone else
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Post removed in the interests of group harmony.
Cili. |
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A goal by any other name is a goal. I have never seen someone score on their own team in SL, but it does happen in RL. All goals should be called goals. The only reason a goalie can't score on their opponents is simple, goalies are not allowed pass their own blue line with the puck.
We should keep the rules as is or at least let the captains discuss and vote on it. |
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| Geng wrote: | A goal by any other name is a goal. I have never seen someone score on their own team in SL, but it does happen in RL. All goals should be called goals. The only reason a goalie can't score on their opponents is simple, goalies are not allowed pass their own blue line with the puck.
We should keep the rules as is or at least let the captains discuss and vote on it. |
Geng, the current rule is no goal off a goalie. I think you're confused.
Keep the rule as-is. SL is out of our control sometimes, and disagree entirely with Abu's own-goal-to-stop-the-clock theory. Why would you ever want to score an own goal? The consequences always outweigh the rewards. Accidents happen in SL, that's why this rule was put in place. |
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| In today's meeting we decided to just make the previously standing rule simpler to understand: Basically any goal scored by the goaltender is discounted. If a situation arises where it is suspected that, for some strange reason, a goaltender is deliberately scoring on their own team, we will decide that on a case-to-case basis. |
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